desultory discourses

7 songs--make that 6 songs

2005-10-30T18:36:00.000-08:00

THE MEME: List seven songs you are into right now. No matter what the genre, whether they have words, or even if they're any good, but they must be songs you're really enjoying now. Post these instructions in your blog along with your seven songs. Then tag seven other people to see what they're listening to.

Jealous of the Moon - Nickel Creek
Oh-my-freaking-god this has to be one of the most beautiful songs ever written. It was actually co-written by Gary Louris of The Jayhawks. He's one of my favorite songwriters ever. Actually, it's odd that there's no Jayhawks song appearing on this list. Usually they're at the top of my listening list. I must just be in between phases. Ask me again in 2 months and I bet I'll be addicted to "Sound of Lies" all over again.

One Voice - The Wailin' Jennys
This is another of the most beautiful songs ever written. It's so beautiful that my friend Adrienne actually put this track on repeat and listened to it for about 2 and a half hours. I will be forever in debt to my pal Katie for introducing me to these chicks. Their beautiful 3-part harmonies send chills up my spine. I also love their cover of Neil Young's "Old Man."

Always on my Mind, Lonely Day, One Ray of Sunlight, In Our Darkest Hour, Hey Now Girl, and All Over Again - Phantom Planet
Ok, I know it's probably cheating to put 6 songs as one pick, but Phantom Planet's album "The Guest" is currently my No. 1 favorite album to listen to. I can't imagine having to pick just one song off it to listen to. There are a few tracks that I like slightly less than the others, so I left them off, but they're worth listening to as well. Just thinking about this album is getting me pumped up! I LOVE IT!

Jesus of Suburbia - Green Day
American Idiot is a kickass album from beginning to end, but "Jesus of Suburbia" is my fave track. Is this cheating again because it has 5 "movements?" They're all great, and Trey Cool's drum fills on this track get me wet.

Jacket - Nerf Herder
Yes I know I'm totally copying Poo here, but screw it, this is one of my favorite songs. It's so good I don't even think it's ruined by the silly changes they made for the "American Cheese" release, but I'm firmly in the camp that thinks the original B-side was better. The original ending just gets me every time. Mmm!

Driftwood - Travis
I think this is my favorite Travis song at the moment, and that's saying quite a bit. I love Fran's clever wordplay: "Pillars turn to butter, Butterflying low..." It's almost as good as when he says "I can't stand myself, I'm being held up by invisible men" in "Raindown" (which is another great tune).

I think I have to wait on song #7 because I feel like there's something obvious that I'm missing. I usually listen to music at work, so I'll wait until I get a chance to see what's on my PC there, and I betcha that'll jog my memory. (Although I'm tempted just to put "Jealous of the Moon" on here again. Can I do that?)

Ok. Now it's time to go make a salad in my bed. No really! I'm serious.

Whew!

2005-08-22T19:35:00.000-07:00

Tim and I had a lovely weekend visiting some friends up north. Apparently I forget how much I miss some of our friends until I actually see them again.

However, on Friday night we were talking about diets and artificial sweeteners and such. Well, of course I mentioned stevia (of which I am a HUGE proponent). One of our friends asked hadn't I heard about all the bad side effects that had been reported recently? Certainly I hadn't, and that got me worried. After doing a good deal of research online, I have yet to find a single negative report on stevia. (I think I got through about 3 entire Google pages.) As a matter of fact, I discovered that there have been over 500 studies that found stevia to have no harmful effects. Apparently the Japanese (who outlawed artificial sweeteners due to health concerns) have been using stevia since the 60s to sweeten everything from soy sauce to pickles to Diet Coke to ice cream. Dang. Wish I could get my hands on some stevia-sweetened Diet Coke!

Ok. I guess I'll get off my stevia soapbox. Instead of rambling about it, I think I'll have some. Now it's off to the fridge to indulge in some stevia-sweetened Kool-Aid. Mm-mm-good!

Because I know you're curious...

2005-07-23T17:05:00.000-07:00

Here's what's on my exercise mix these days:

Hope - Descendents
Get the Funk Out - Extreme
Ode to Liebert - Rattbelly
Singing in my Sleep - Semisonic
Buy her Candy - Rattbelly
Answer the Phone - Sugar Ray
Lazy Eye - Goo Goo Dolls
Mr. Bartender (It's So Easy) - Sugar Ray
One More Shot - Rattbelly
Mrs. Baker - Rattbelly
All I want - Rattbelly
Cruel Angel Thesis (theme from Neon Genesis Evangelion) --3 times
Somewhere in Ohio - The Jayhawks
Over and Over - Rattbelly
Castaway - Green Day
Raindown - Travis
Everybody Wants to Rule the World - Tears for Fears
I'd Run Away - The Jayhawks
I'm Gonna Make You Love Me - The Jayhawks
Black Lodge - Anthrax
Only - Anthrax
Sweetness - Jimmy Eat World
Since You've Been Gone - Kelly Clarkson (shut up, that song ROCKS!)
Canned Heat - Jamiroquai
I Believe in a Thing Called Love - The Darkness
Electric Barbarella - Duran Duran
Don't Open 'Til Doomsday - The Misfits
Is This Really Happening to Me - Phantom Planet
Just Like a Pill - Pink
Don't Let Me Get Me - Pink
Cosmic Girl - Jamiroquai

I tell ya, if I couldn't listen to music when I exercise, I'd NEVER do it.

Maybe next time I'll finally respond to being tagged by Dan. I'm nothing if not a procrastinator!

TiVo-tastic

2005-05-18T11:30:00.000-07:00

I know I haven't updated this lately. But I really haven't had anything much to say.

Perhaps the fact that I just got TiVo also has something to do with it. I haven't watched a single commercial in weeks, and Oh the Glorious Shows I've been able to see since I haven't wasted all that time on commercials! (Although I was rather pissed when it chopped off the last 30 seconds--a MOMENTOUS 30 seconds--of the season finale of Gilmore Girls. Luckily Amber had taped the following show on that channel too so we got to see the end. Whew!)

I spent a good deal of time yesterday programming it to record a bunch of documentaries and biography and history programs. TiVo doesn't have to be all about fluff TV--even though fluff is my favorite.

One of the strangest things about TiVo is the random stuff it will record for you until you give it enough info to let it know what you really like. This week I got Aqua Teen Hungerforce, Sea Lab 2021, Dr Quinn Medicine Woman, Harvey Birdman: Attorney at Law, Gunsmoke, Macgyver, the made-for-TV-movie of Hercules, some 1930s film about WWII, Charmed, Matlock, Starting Over, and many more. I saved the silly cartoons for Tim to watch, but all the rest got deleted except Starting Over, which I checked out.

When I was done watching that episode, I promptly ordered up a season pass for Starting Over. I'm hooked. It's not your average reality show. I'm sure plenty of it is staged/scripted like all the rest, but the part I love about it is that the women on this show are NOT who you expect to see on TV. They are normal women. Several are middle-aged (or past that). None of them are beauty queens. (Of course none of them are downright ugly, but what do you want? It's still TV.) Anyway, it's fun watching people triumph over adversity and learn about themselves and grow as a result. There are no stupid games like how fast can you lick the whipped cream off your partner... Instead they're given challenges to help them overcome their fears and hang-ups. One woman who's afraid of commitment had to spend a day "married" to a guy who had very different likes and dislikes than she did--to help show how she sabotages relationships, and how her "marriage fantasy" is just that, a fantasy. She'll never meet someone who is exactly like her, so she needs to learn to compromise. Another woman had a terrible phobia of elevators, and by the most recent episode, she was riding up and down to the 51st story of a Las Vegas hotel. (It was a real struggle for her though.)

Well I'm at home sick today so I'll probably get plenty of TiVo time in. And that also means I'll have time to work on the Doctor Who scarf for my mom. I'm about 1/4 of the way done weaving in the ends of the yarn. When that's done I just have to add the tassels and then it'll be time for "Would you like a jelly baby?"

That reminds me. I was discussing Tom Baker in my dream last night. Amber was very amused to learn that after Doctor Who, Tom Baker had gone on to star in a show called Medics--as a doctor. (That is true, by the way. Even in dreams my Doctor Who knowledge apparently doesn't desert me.)

I also had a dream where I rescued a toddler from a feral cat across the street from my parents house, but I'm sick of typing so it will have to wait.

Birthday Fun Dreaming of....Army Buddy

2005-03-26T14:05:00.000-08:00

Had a great time yesterday for Amber's birthday! Lots of good food and friends. What could be better? I wonder if the several (but not too many) drinks I had last night had anything to do with the abundance of dreams I remember. I used to remember most of my dreams. Lately that hasn't been the case. They say you'll remember your dreams better if you keep a dream journal, or just talk about your dreams a lot. I guess I haven't been doing that. Anyway, to help me remember more in the future, I'll record last night's 3 here.

1) I was at work. (Of course work was a very strange amalgamation of my current job and the last few I've had.) Cypress (the person who had the Training Coordinator position before I got promoted to it--she quit several months ago) came back to work and she was really mean to me. (We had actually been fairly good friends.) Suddenly she was going to be my supervisor or something, and apparently she didn't like the way I'd been handling things in her absence. Not fun. I suppose this was just my insecurity about my new position manifesting itself.

2) I don't remember a lot if the context, but I do remember that semi-distant-friend-I'd-like-to-know-better Mercedes was playing an online RPG where you could form parties with other gamers. When you were off-line someone else in your party could run your character for you and continue to play adventures and gain XP for your character as well as theirs. I was thinking of starting out playing this game and wanted to join her party (she was a real pro), but I was nervous about asking her 'cause I thought she might not want to be dragged down by such a neophyte (especially since it meant putting her character in my hands from time to time). I never did get to ask her about this as I sort of rolled into dream number

3) I was traveling with a non-existent roommate (who was sometimes Tim and sometimes Luke from The Gilmore Girls). We had a platonic relationship and were visiting some old roommates of his. (One of which was my friend Max who is getting married soon.) I remember having a dilemma about whether to try and take our relationship to the next level. We had such a great friendship that I didn't want to jeopardize it. I also remember him cooking a really great meal for me. (That was obviously when he was Luke from Gilmore Girls.) This whole time I was also wondering if Mercedes would ever let me join her party.

So there you have it. What does that say about my subconscious mind? I'm not sure I even care.

Today Tim and I are heading to Milwaukee to visit with his friend Steve-o who is back in town for a few days. He just re-upped in the army so we might not be seeing him again for a while. I just wish this blasted stomach ache would go away! Perhaps it's time to use my burgeoning psychic powers to will it away. Right now I'll try anything!

Beautiful Day Bass Religion

2005-03-19T08:09:00.000-08:00

Great show last night at Beautiful Day Cafe. The Ensign Trout Trio appeared with special guests Les and Corinne Compton. (Yes, that includes my parents, and no, I'm not sure if I'm spelling Les and Corinne's names correctly. argh.)

Hooray! I got my bass back!!! And there wasn't even anything wrong with it. If I'd just pulled the 3rd knob out from the body, that hissing would have gone away. Oh well. Live and learn!

Over on Tim's blog he was discussing his views on religion, and it reminded me of a really interesting guest I heard on Al Franken's show on Air America. Brooke Allen wrote an article called "Our Godless Constitution", about the religious views (or lack thereof) of the founding fathers. Did you realize that god isn't mentioned once in the US Constitution? And in The Federalist Papers (they were sort of the propaganda piece used to "sell" the constitution to the everyday folks) god is only mentioned twice--apparently both times in the context of "god only knows" or somesuch--so not much of a mention at all. As a matter of fact, Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli begins with the words "As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion..." This treaty marked only the 3rd unanimous vote in the history of the Senate. (By this time they'd voted 339 times.) Not only that, but this treaty was published in the major newspapers of the day. Can you imagine the outcry that would spring up today? But it was just a matter of course at the time. Contrary to what some politicians would have you believe, the U.S. was NOT founded on Christianity. Folks at that time were pretty vehement about the separation of church and state. Many of the most prominent Founding Fathers weren't even Christian. All that stuff like "In God We Trust" and the Pledge of Allegiance didn't come until much later. "In God We Trust" wasn't added to our currency until the Civil War, and I believe the lovely McCarthy era had something to do with the addition of "under God" to the pledge. Doesn't that tell you something? Anyway, I found the article and it's very interesting. I highly recommend it to anyone who's ....... Actually I recommend it to anyone! And I think I'll leave everyone with some of the wise words of Ben Franklin. (Could they describe anyone you know of?)

"A man compounded of law and gospel is able to cheat a whole country with his religion and then destroy them under color of law."

Fast mint chip bass guitar

2005-03-14T15:31:00.000-08:00

My oh my, the work days sure do go so much faster since I was promoted to Training Coordinator. I hope that remains the case even after I get used to the position.

I made mint chocolate chip ice cream last night, and I think it's the best batch of ice cream I've made yet. The texture was less icy than most of the others. I wonder if that had something to do with the fact that the frozen bowl was slightly-less-than-frozen and it had to spin longer to really set up. Also I replaced 1/3 the sugar with splenda and it didn't' seem to make a texture difference. (The batch with all splenda turned out really hard.)

Now I can pretty much play 4 whole songs on bass! Yay! (Although I don't claim to play them well.) I can't wait to get my bass back from my parents. They're taking it in to get fixed (it hisses), and in the meantime I've been using the crappy Fender Squire Precision with the action that's like a mile high. Ouch!

Disturbing Dream

2005-03-12T10:20:00.000-08:00

Whoa. I had a real doozy this morning. I was outside our house (of course the house didn't really look like our house) watching 2 snowplows get rid of the 4 foot piles of snow that were there. Poor Amber had had to shovel her way around them to get to work in the morning. When I walked back toward the house I noticed there were maybe 10 or 12 long icicles hanging off the corner of the house. They were really cool, and reached almost to the ground. (Some of them did.) Of course I wanted to walk through and break them all down. So I did. As I was stepping into this icicle forest I had the thought that I better be careful, 'cause icicles that big can be dangerous. Sure enough, just as I broke through them, I felt a big chunk of one of them drive itself into the top/back of my skull. I mean I could feel it go in. It didn't hurt too bad--just a little pain around the puncture wound. Actually having the icicle inside my brain left me feeling just a little pressure. Of course I fell down into the snow.

I felt sad. I was so upset about all the things I'd be missing, and about how bad everyone who cared about me would feel. (I also felt rather stupid that it was all my own dumb fault. I wished I could say I was sorry for being so careless to everyone who would miss me.) At the same time I felt sorta OK about it 'cause I knew I'd had a really good life, and there was nothing I could complain about. I just wanted everyone to know that. I could still move a bit so I used the blood from my gushing head-wound to write the word "LOVE" in the snow, and sign it "-E". I hoped this would get the message across. Then I realized that I wasn't passing out like I'd thought I would.

So I decided to try to get up. I managed it pretty well. I began to see a ray of hope. Maybe this was one of those Phineas Gauge things, where I actually had a chance to live. I went into the house, but was so weak from blood loss I couldn't climb the stairs to get Tim to help. (And I didn't really want Tim to see me like that anyway. That would have been horrible for him.) So I just went into Dylan's room (he was at work) and used his phone to dial 911. Nothing happened so I hung up and tried it again. By this time the numbers were swimming in front of me pretty good so I had to try really hard to hit those 3 little digits. I made it though. Unfortunately I didn't get the usual "911 what's your emergency?", instead the girl on the other end asked if I wanted to be on the David Letterman show, and then asked where I'd like the proceeds from my accident to be donated. By this time talking was pretty hard, but I managed to croak out my address and briefly describe the emergency. Right about then I realized I was dreaming, and of course, woke up. (Feeling very relieved I might add!)

So this morning, in addition to being under-slept, I've got that weird-yucky feeling that always follows disturbing dreams of this sort. But hey, I sure do feel lucky to be alive!

So I figured it out...

2005-02-26T22:40:00.000-08:00

I mean the reason I haven't told anyone about this silly little blog yet.

That's actually the reason right there. Did you catch it? It's the "silly little" part. That's alright, it slipped by me at first too. As it turns out it's just my nagging insecurity getting the best of me once again. But can you really blame me? You see, the blogs I try to keep up with are those of excellent writers like Neil Gaiman, Dan from Rattbelly (that will forever be his last name in this household), Mike from Sunspot, even Tim has turned out to be an interesting blogger, and don't even get me started on Mercedes' beautiful blog. (mmm alliteration) So I think a little lack of self-confidence is in order. Those folks all have interesting lives, and even more importantly, they express themselves in a way that is interesting/insightful/amusing (or all 3). You need an English paper on any of the soliloquies from Hamlet? Then I'm your gal; however, if you want to know what I did over the weekend, or what I'm thinking (not that you do) it's there that all the good words seem to desert me. As far as that goes I may have shot my load just naming this thing. So now that I've figured out the source of my silence (mmm more alliteration), do I send out a mass email telling the world that there's yet another voice out there in the aether? Or do I wait for some poor fool to stumble upon it and spread the word if they so choose? Decisions, decisions...

Whew! So now that that little tantrum of self-doubt is out of the way...

I do have to admit I'm rather proud of the name of this doggone thing. I do so love words! Amber and I have often discussed saving up for a full version of the OED. (That's the Oxford English Dictionary to the uninitiated.) How cool would it be to have access to thousands upon thousands of words--including their origins and many, many quotations illustrating their meanings? I practically drool at the thought. I recently read a fascinating book about the making of the OED called The Professor and the Madman by Simon Winchester. Were you aware that one of the biggest contributors to the first edition of the OED was a murderer who was serving what amounted to a life sentence in an asylum for the criminally insane? Well apparently neither did the editors of the OED at first! What an amazing story. It was a bit dry in places, but overall a very good read. I'd recommend it to any of my fellow logophiles out there.

Actually, that may have been the first non-fiction book I'd read since college. I was surprised to find that it kept me as entertained (if not more so) as many of the fictions I've read as of late. Indeed, it inspired me to alter my reading habits (for the time being at least). Now I am reading 2 non-fiction books for every 1 work of fiction. I figure I've got some catching up to do on the real world. Today I finished Psychic Development for Beginners. Perhaps one of these days I'll write about the small successes I had with a couple of the exercises. Next I plan to move on to Psychic Workshop before I delve back into the annals of fantasy with some well-earned Feist. Although I did just have a dream about Roger Zelazny's Amber series... Anyway many thanks to Tim and Dylan for lending me the psychic books. I'm having great fun with them!

On a completely unrelated topic, I had a lovely weekend. Tim and his brother Mike and I went to see his other brother Dan's bluegrass(ish) band play a benefit concert in LaCrosse. All you can eat and drink--yum! Well, all I could eat anyway; I was the DD so no beer for me. Not that I would have wanted any anyway. Beer. uck. Then we spent today catching up with old pals Puffy and Deon. (I don't know if I'm spelling that right. I hate not knowing how to spell people's names correctly.) It's too bad they don't live closer. Then again, I don't even see my Madison friends all that often. I'm a lousy social planner. I should do something about that. Perhaps I'll make it one of my "psychic goals" like in the book. My immediate goal however, should be to go to bed. Of the past 43 hours I've slept only 3. I know, I know, that's shameful. I'm not as young as I used to be and I'll be paying for it come Monday.

Why is it that when I'm talking to myself I always sound like my own mother? Just one of life's little mysteries I guess... G'night all, and sweet dreams.

So the Jayhawks are better off...

2005-02-20T06:57:00.000-08:00

The Springswood family (E, D, A, and T) plus my parents went out to Luther's Blues last night to see Mark Olson and Gary Louris. (Olson left the Jayhawks years ago.) No one was sure if it was going to be a Jayhawks show with Olson back again, or if it would be just the 2 of them or what. As it turned out, it was the 2 of them plus some random drummer and a fiddle player. (Neither of whom was impressive in my book.)

It was certainly a pleasure to hear them sing together again. Their 2 voices blend better than any others. When they're singing together it's almost difficult to to tell where one ends and the next begins. That part was fantastic. Overall, however; the show was rather disappointing for me. Mark Olson was either incredibly wasted, or he just hadn't bothered to learn Gary's songs. If you're on a national tour and people are shelling out $15+ to see you the least you could do is practice and learn the fucking songs! He was on bass for most of the night and really didn't have his shit together. His total demeanor didn't do much for me. Gary was the consummate professional, as always, but (as Tim pointed out) Mark acted like he was in a local band.

I rather felt like I was watching the second to last scene of a film. One of those character studies about the musician whose career goes downhill, and he's got his big chance to get some of it back, and the night of the show he gets wasted and blows it and looks like a fool. I was truly embarrassed for him a lot of the time.

In the end, I'm certainly glad I went. It was wonderful to see and hear some of those Jayhawks songs they never do live anymore 'cause they're Mark's songs. That was thoroughly enjoyable. But the biggest effect that show had on me is to make me really look forward to the next time the actual Jayhawks perform in Madison. Yes, Mark's voice is lovely with Gary's, but Mark's newer songs didn't do anything for me. I'll take Tim O'Reagan any day. (He's the current drummer and harmonizer for the Jayhawks, and his voice is fabulous with Gary's as well--plus he doesn't fuck up during shows)

And while I'm on the subject of last night's experience, let me take a moment to rant about the supposed "VIP" treatment at Luther's Blues. Ha! I laugh. I'll say it again! "HA!" Instead of VIP it should have been PIV(m). For "Packed In Very (much)". Ugh! We felt like sardines. Ok, ok, let me go back and start at the beginning.

We decided to chip in together and get one of their VIP tables for $100. (Split 6 ways that wasn't too bad, and it came with a free bottle of champagne.) So when we got there and picked up our tickets it was pretty cool, 'cause we got to skip the whole line and go right up the stairs. When we got to the top they were all like "We've got VIPs here!" They opened another door just for us, and even stopped the other line to let us in. That part was great. But that's about where it ended.

Once inside, a fellow pointed out where our table was. Dad actually hurt himself trying to squeeze into the chair that was tucked in between the table and the wall. We were all packed around 3 sides of a fairly small table, and that would have been just fine, if not for the fact that they neglected to leave any space to move around any of the tables in our area. There were several tables in our "row" and there was one more row of tables closer to the stage. We were lucky in the fact that we were farther away. (Even though it did mean we had people directly in front of us on the same level.) The poor folks who were squashed into the tables in front of us had no way to get in or out--without making 1 or more people get up out of their seats, push their chairs in, and get the hell out of the way. Some people were just climbing over chairs. If they'd just moved the whole table setup about 2 feet farther back, there would have been no problem at all. I don't think anybody would have minded being 2 feet farther back if it meant they didn't have to get up a bunch of times. As it was it made for a rather uncomfortable and distracting night. I swear, there must have been some fire code being broken there. We'd have all perished if that place went up. I'm pretty disgusted with Luther's now. I don't think I'll be going back anytime soon unless they have some act I really want to see.

Overall, it was a good night though. I got to spend it with the people who I care about, and that can make up for just about anything!

Guilt

2005-02-13T09:15:00.000-08:00

I had to turn a friend down this morning. I hate having to do that. I'd told her eons ago that I'd videotape and edit her wedding for her, but as it turns out, her wedding is set on a day I'll be out of town for a family reunion thing.

Honestly, I'm glad I can't do it. I'm so sick of weddings. After the last one I vowed I'd never do another one again. Of course I wasn't entirely serious. I've just been hating my computer so much lately that I haven't even been checking in on the web things I used to love, Sluggy, Homestar, Neil Gaiman's site. And it's because every time I sit down here I feel like I should be working on one of the projects I never really finished. Like the wedding I never transferred to DVD. (Mostly because I can't figure out how to get the damn project to a file that looks any good.) Or the wedding I got almost completely done a couple years ago (I was just waiting for some photos from the bride.) and then had my hard drive give out so I lost the whole thing. I've still got all the footage, but damn if having to put it ALL together again feels like a major chore I'm not ready for. Ugh.

There are so many exciting projects (video and other) that I'd love to get started on, but as long as I know I've got something older to take care of, I don't feel right about doing the new fresh ones, so nothing gets done. Story of my life. Sigh...

A journey of a thousand miles...

2005-02-12T23:45:00.000-08:00

Wow. I never thought I'd have a blog. My doctor once told me I should keep a journal. I've tried this several times throughout my life, but it always seemed so pointless that I'd just give it up after a month or 2. Perhaps this is what will happen here as well. We shall see.

I'm not sure if I'll even mention to any of my friends that I've got a blog. I always thought they were the product of a rather egocentric mind. (Unless of course you're someone like Neil Gaiman or Mike Huberty, and you know there are people out there who actually want to read what you've written.) I think for now this will just be for me. As for the future...who knows? Besides, I may feel less comfortable expressing myself if I know that someone who knows me will be reading this, and that person may feel less comfortable with me, depending on what they've read--think of the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, the act of observation changes both observer and observed.

Ok, time for bed young lady. (Or maybe a few pages of the Picture of Dorian Gray first...)